The Manuscript Appraisal Agency

An Interview with Dianne Bates and BUZZ WORDS.

Brian Cook: I started life in the book business in 1969 when I needed a job with a car. I joined Golden Press as a sales representative - Little Golden Books sold for 25cents and the Little Golden Book library was the series to collect, a 24 page picture book sold for $1, Skippy was Australia's favourite character and the Woman's Weekly Cookbook (white cover) was in its first edition and Australia's favourite Cook Book.

In 1974 I journeyed to the UK for six months and stayed nearly six years. I joined McGraw-Hill as a sales person and graduated to a sales and marketing management position traveling to Middle East, West Africa, US and Europe.

After returning to Australia in 1980 I joined Rigby Publishers in Adelaide where I undertook a number of different marketing and publishing roles including publicity, product development and wholesale distribution management. At that time Rigby (and Lansdowne) was owned by James Hardie Industries who wished to diversify their business interests (away from asbestos) and I was asked to establish and run a new children's book sales and marketing initiative, under the umbrella of Rigby Education, and so Scholars Choice Book Fairs was created (later sold to Scholastic and became Great Australian Bookfairs). This is when my real interest in children's books flourished and I became entrenched in the world of children's books, publishing and marketing.

In 1986 I joined then William Collins Publishers as Manager for South Australia and Northern Territory and in 1988 relocated to Sydney where I took up the role of Children's Publisher at William Collins and through the transition to become HarperCollins Australia. This was a very challenging period for all concerned.

Through that time I traveled Australia and the world with HarperCollins, selling and buying rights, attending bookfairs etc., meeting publishers, writers and illustrators from all around the world.

What did your work at HarperCollins involve?

The role of a publisher is about books - but it is also about people. It is all about books and the many and varied people who get involved in bringing a book to the marketplace. Yes, it starts with those who create the content of the book, the writer and illustrator (sometimes one and the same) but there is a huge team of other people who contribute to the creation of a book before it appears on the shelf in the bookshop. This is especially true when the publisher is a large one, with editorial and production teams, sales and marketing and other sections of a company that get involved in the development of a project and the ultimate success of that project.

The Publishers's job is to bring all those many and varied people together with a common goal. The Publisher acts as a 'champion' as they guide the book or project through all the stages required - remembering that they are also directing the publisher's money to an investment with a long term objective in mind.

So, the job entailed interaction with writers, illustrators, editors, designers, accountants, marketing, publicity, sales managers, sales people, key account (sales) managers, retailers, wholesalers, bookclubs, bookfairs, other promoters of books, media, reviewers, associations, and other industry bodies.

Did you need to travel overseas on business much?

As Publisher I traveled quite extensively - to book fairs in Bologna, Frankfurt as well as other trips to UK and USA.

As a publisher, how would you have described yourself? Were you innovative? If yes, in what ways?

As a Publisher, I saw myself as a facilitator and manager. Being a good publisher relies on a team of good people working together for a common goal. Throughout the period of eights years that I was in the role of Publisher, I guided our books and writers and illustrators through some very tough times, reinventing the publishing programmes, strategies and objectives, while at the same time building new book creators and promoting our books to markets around the world.

I felt my strength was in bringing great people together to make great books and ride through demanding times. When I left that role I could see that the results were evident in the people who were profiled as writers and illustrators but also those profiled in the publishing industry.

Why did you retire from publishing?

I certainly do not see myself as being retired from publishing - quite the opposite. I work for myself now.

In 1996 a restructure in HarperCollins resulted in my (Publisher's) role being changed and I was offered a redundancy package - which in due course I accepted and moved on - happy to do so because it was time for me to move on. I greatly enjoyed my time at HarperCollins but it was time to leave the labyrinth of corporate life and to do something for myself.

What were the worst stresses in publishing?

Apart from finding the next 'best seller' / 'award winner' it was the constancy of 'next month's' new books. Planning a publishing programme two years in advance, committing to that programme and making it happen. Publishing is a business, a return on investment, and every step is vital in achieving financial goals, because without the achievement of those goals, there is no suitable return and no further investment in new books.

And the greatest joys?

Bringing things together, bringing new people, both creators and staff, to the fore. Seeing people grow and develop, as a team and as individuals. Finding a way forward. I also greatly enjoyed the association of (mostly) everyone involved in the Children.s book industry and I have a good many friends and associates there still.

There were many joys for me, but my greatest personal joy was being a part of 'the process' and finding my way in that process and the personal satisfaction that it brings to me.

And there is one particular joy which stands out from many. That is being in the organizing committee, led by Margaret Hamilton, for the first National Children's Book Council Conference in Manly all those years ago and seeing it grow to be the event that it is today.

Did you ever "discover" new talents and nurture them?

I was very privileged to see new people come and grow and established people continue to develop. I was there the day Bruce Whatley walked in with a paper mache kangaroo and a head and heart full of ideas - the rest is history - but that was as a result of Bruce's talent, skills, attitude and drive - I alone didn't make that happen but I was part of it and I believed in him and 'drove' it along.

For me, nurturing was what it was all about. I was but a part of a team and seeing that team grow and develop was as vital to my sense of success in that job as anything . and I see many of that team out there working in the industry and I am extremely proud of them. Bit paternalistic perhaps, but there you are.

And that 'discovery' process continues today. Peter Watt is the example of a previously unpublished (adult) writer who is now very strong in the market place.

Can you briefly describe what MAA is, how many manuscripts (and types of manuscripts) you receive on average every year? Do you outsource work? If yes, whose services do you employ?

The idea for MAA came to me as a result of watching the 'slush pile', the unsolicited manuscript pile, at HarperCollins. Hopefuls would send in a manuscript to usually receive the polite 'thanks, but no thanks' letter and know nothing of how the manuscript was perceived. A publisher can not respond with any kind of feedback - because they simply can not do that. So the manuscript would be returned to the aspiring writer who has no idea what the reaction was or why. They know nothing more about their manuscript than they did when they sent it in.

We set out to get our clients into the publisher's head and offer them that insight. If your manuscript was to arrive on a publisher's desk today, what is their reaction to it likely to be and why? Where is the manuscript 'up to' in the scheme of things? Is it 'worth' something to a publisher and if not, why not?

Our appraisals are never intended to be a writing lesson, or an edit (though they sometimes become that) - they are an opinion, albeit a considered and informed one, about a publisher's likely response. Warts and all.

We take on all types of manuscripts, adult's and children's, fiction and non-fiction. Everything except scientific, technical, academic, religious and poetry. If you would find the book in a general or high street bookshop, then that is precisely the type of book we will appraise. Children's books are a specialty.

I have an extensive team of skilled, senior and experienced publishing people as appraisers from which to choose. The manuscript is sent to someone with skills and experience in the genre. Though every appraisal has an editorial component to it, the appraisal always takes on a publishing perspective as appropriate.

How critical is an appraisal from you likely to be?

We want to give our clients real information - information they can work with. We appreciate the trust given to us and we must reciprocate. If something is not working we need to tell the client why it isn't. We never wish to be impolite but we need to be clear and forthright. I describe it as 'putting on Wellington Boots and stomping around creative nerve ends'. Again, we do not set out to fix problems, that is the writer's job - we want to make sure that we describe the problem well so that the writer can decide for themselves whether or not the point is valid and take it on in the way they see fit. It is always their story, not ours.

What would you say are the most common errors made by new writers for young people?

Of course it all starts with good writing but I believe the most common mistake made by new writers is not reading widely enough in the genre or being aware what types of books publisher's are able to publish.

And not knowing how the world of children's books works.

I think the more exposure writers can have to all aspects of children's books, the better equipped they are. The CBC plays a very positive role in that education, though they often come at it from a different perspective. There are lots of different industry events and resources in the major cities where writers can be exposed to the breadth of writing and publishing for children. Many rural areas have a sub-branch of the CBC too.

Would you have any advice for a new children.s writer trying to get published these days? Are agents worthwhile?

My advice would be - be realistic.

Read as widely as possible and practice your writing in every way possible. And don't be afraid to join a writer's group - if you can find one you are comfortable with.

Become exposed to as many different aspects of children's books as possible.

Be a member of the CBC and attend every children's book event you can. Learn as much as possible about how everyone operates.

Writing is a business. It might start as a hobby, passion or interest but as soon as the writer considers publication - it becomes a business. Someone invests money with an expectation that they will get that money and more back. If the writer is not in touch with the market they might well create something which does not fit with what publishers can invest in. The story the writer wants to tell needs to be the story the reader wants to read.

The question regarding agents is a tough one. The short answer is yes, agents are worthwhile and valuable to a writer's career - if you are worthwhile to them. Remember, an agent earns around 10 - 15% of what the writer earns. Most children's book writers earn very little - an agent earns 10 - 15% of that 'very little' so, especially for a previously unpublished writer, getting an agent to be interested in them is extremely difficult. There is no return for the time and energy invested.

You still seem to be travelling overseas a fair bit: is this for business reasons? Do you still keep in touch with what's happening in the world of publishing? How involved are you? Do you still network? Go to conferences, etc?

For the last ten years or so I have traveled various parts of the world for book fairs and other book events - lately to the UK every other year for London Book Fair. I keep very close contact with Publishers in many a different ways and attend conferences and writing festivals as appropriate. Funnily, without the corporate baggage to contend with, I'm more involved at the writer 'coal face' than ever before.

I understand you were a judge for the NSW Premier's Literary Awards 2005. Did you judge the writing for the young section? How does one get such a job? What was your experience like?

I was on the judging panel for the children's and 'YA' categories in the award, the Ethel Turner and Patricia Wrightson Awards, as well as the category for the multi-cultural award.

One is invited by the Premier's Dept to be a judge and that invitation is usually as a result of an introduction by a judge from previous years.

It was a most interesting and valuable experience although it happens over a very tight time frame during the Christmas and summer period - it is frantic! I enjoyed it greatly and learnt a good deal along the way as it gave me the opportunity to have a 'snap shot' of Australian Children's publishing for the year - all delivered to my door.

Which books for children and YAs have you most enjoyed reading in the past few years? What makes a good book, in your opinion?

Grief, that is a big question - there are just so many of them.

I'm a John Marsden fan from way back and love the Elle Cronicles, and Emily Rodda, and Jacquie French, and Nette Hilton, and Steven Herrick, Sherryl Clark, and... no, no, no, the list is too great - don't ask me to do that.

For me, a good book is one which takes the reader willingly to another place. A good book is all about a good story and characters and plot and dialogue. A real story about real people in their real world.

A good book is one which someone passionately recommends me to read and that I want to recommend to someone else.